Oneness, The Father and the Son, different manifestations, the same attributes

How can the Father and Son be one? The Father (YHWH) is eternal, the son is begotten. The Father is not to be seen, the Son visited us, both in Old Testament as the Angel of YHWH and in the New Testament as YHWH Yeshuah. The only begotten Son is YHWH as much as the Father is YHWH. However, the Father is greater because he existed before and he handed all things to his Son.

The Lamb

This letter is a refreshing look at the relationship between Father and Son.

Troy and I were in the process of discussing who the Angel of YHUH is that lead Israel into the promised land when Troy had a wedding to go to and the discussion had to be put on hold. In the meantime, I have come across a few texts that seem to me to make this very clear.

To summarize the discussion so far:

Troy was feeling lead to believe that the Messiah of the NT was not Eloheem, because, as he shared, he saw that there was only ONE Eloheem named YHUH. This left no room for the true Saviour to be anyone but YHUH, and the NT person was not YHUH because there is only ONE YHUH. He felt the Angel of YHUH who lead Israel into the promised land could be no one else but Joshua Son of Nun since the name Joshua contains most of the name YHUH (YHUshua) and since Joshua lead Israel into the promised land.

My position is that there are TWO Eloheem by the name of YHUH who are to be treated as one. I find that the Messiah of the NT is the Saviour named YHUH Saviour and this was the name given to Him as the Angel of YHUH in the Old Covenant, and He, not Joshua, lead Israel into the promised land.

The challenge then is to see if the Scriptures provide proof that there are two by the exact name YHUH, and if the Angel of YHUH was someone different than Joshua.

Just previous to Troy having to go to his son's wedding I had shown how there must be two YHUH since Scripture shows that the face of YHUH cannot be seen by man, yet in another place Moses sees the face of YHUH. Troy felt this was showing that YHUH only shows His face to righteous men, and the word for "man" where he cannot see YHUH's face is referring to common or unrighteous men. Therefore he felt the problem was solved that YHUH's face can be seen by righteous men, but not by common men.

In response to this, I wish to submit the chapter of Exodus 33. Please note in this chapter the following:

Exo 33:11-17 And YHUH spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. .

Exo 33:17 And YHUH said unto Moses, ... Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Here we see in the same chapter a YHUH who speaks to Moses face to face, and a YHUH who says to Moses that Moses cannot see His face and live. This cannot be referring to different men, as in a righteous man and a common man, because in both encounters it involves Moses. I don't see any other way to reconcile this than to say there are two YHUH here - One who Moses can see His face, and One who Moses can't see His face.

The second issue regards the identity of the Angel of YHUH. Troy thinks this is referring to Joshua Son of Nun. I believe it is referring to the Angel of YHUH who was given the name YHUH who lead Israel in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night (Ex. 14:19, Ex. 13:21

Exo 13:21 And YHUH went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Exo 14:19 And the Angel of Eloheem, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

To prove this Angel of YHUH (whose name was YHUH) was not Joshua I'd like to point out the following incident:

In this story Joshua is with the children of Israel and an angel of YHUH came up and claimed "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land" This was not Joshua since Joshua was already with Israel and this Angel came up from Gilgal. If the Angel was a messenger for YHUH instead of being the Angel that did indeed lead Israel through the pillar of cloud and fire, then the messenger would have said "Joshua lead you..." instead of "I made you to go up..." I feel this story provides strong evidence that Joshua was not the Angel that lead Israel into the promised land. The Angel YHUH lead Israel through Moses and Joshua, but Joshua was not the leader YHUH was referring to as the Angel of YHUH who would lead Israel into the promised land.

I wanted to share this evidence as I feel it is extremely important to know who the Angel of YHUH is, because only when we recognize that there are two YHUH in the Old Covenant, can we then understand how the Messiah called YHUH Saviour of the New Covenant can qualify to be the Saviour of the world, since Scripture tells us:

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHUH; and beside me there is no saviour.

If there is no Saviour besides YHUH, then either:

1) There is only one YHUH and the Messiah of the NT is NOT the Saviour

2) There are two by the name of YHUH and the Messiah of the NT is YHUH Saviour and the One who was speaking in Isaiah 43:11.

Our salvation depends on knowing and accepting the only true Saviour.

If we believe in only One YHUH when there are two, then we will reject YHUH Saviour of the New Covenant.

If we believe in two YHUH when there is only one, then we will reject YHUH the Father as our Saviour by our acceptance of the Messiah of the New Covenant as our Saviour.

So the question boils down to whether or not there are TWO YHUH or only ONE. There are several texts I have shared previously that demonstrate TWO YHUH, such as YHUH saying "YHUH is my name" and YHUH saying "YHUH is His name" But this last reference in Ex. 33 showing Moses can see the face of One by the name of YHUH, but cannot see the face of Another named YHUH is strong proof that the Scriptures teach there are two by the name of YHUH.

May YHUH help us to rightly understand this critical issue.

Aderet